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- From: Linus Torvalds
- To: Till Kamppeter
- Cc: usability gnome org, jody gnome org, mclasen redhat com, desktop_architects lists osdl org
- Subject: [Usability] Re: [Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
- Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:46:21 -0800 (PST)
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Till Kamppeter wrote:
Frederic told that the options from the PPD file are intentionally mot
listed in the printing dialog, the usability team of GNOME was against
listing these options. They clutter the dialog and can be more confusing
than useful to the user.
I personally just encourage people to switch to KDE.
This “users are idiots, and are confused by functionality” mentality of
Gnome is a disease. If you think your users are idiots, only idiots will
use it. I don’t use Gnome, because in striving to be simple, it has long
since reached the point where it simply doesn’t do what I need it to do.
Please, just tell people to use KDE.
Linus
- From: Jeff Waugh
- To: Linus Torvalds
- Cc: usability gnome org, desktop_architects lists osdl org
- Subject: [Usability] Re: [Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
- Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:56:24 +1100
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Till Kamppeter wrote:
Frederic told that the options from the PPD file are intentionally mot
listed in the printing dialog, the usability team of GNOME was against
listing these options. They clutter the dialog and can be more confusing
than useful to the user.I personally just encourage people to switch to KDE.
This “users are idiots, and are confused by functionality” mentality of
Gnome is a disease. If you think your users are idiots, only idiots will
use it.
Hi Linus,
That’s definitely not a point of view of the GNOME Project - we’re focused
on making Free Software appropriate for users who are smart (we don’t talk
about ‘dumb users’), but just don’t care about computing technology. We’re
just like every other Free Software project - fixing stuff requires the work
and attention of people who care about the problem at hand. If you want to
chat about what’s missing in GNOME sometime, I’m always available and keen
to hear feedback, but I can understand if it’s not of interest to you.
Hope to see you again at linux.conf.au. 
Thanks,
- Jeff
- From: Linus Torvalds
- To: Jeff Waugh
- Cc: usability gnome org, desktop_architects lists osdl org
- Subject: [Usability] Re: [Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOME
- Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 19:35:58 -0800 (PST)
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Jeff Waugh wrote:
That’s definitely not a point of view of the GNOME Project - we’re focused
on making Free Software appropriate for users who are smart (we don’t talk
about ‘dumb users’), but just don’t care about computing technology. We’re
just like every other Free Software project - fixing stuff requires the work
and attention of people who care about the problem at hand.
No. I’ve talked to people, and often your “fixes” are actually removing
capabilities that you had, because they were “too confusing to the user”.
That’s not like any other open source project I know about. Gnome seems
to be developed by interface nazis, where consistently the excuse for not
doign something is not “it’s too complicated to do”, but “it would confuse
users”.
The current example of “intentionally not listed in the printing dialog,
the usability team of GNOME was against listing these options.” is clearly
not the exception, but the rule.
Jeff, if the explanation had been “exposing PPD features is too hard, we
need developer manpower”, I’d have understood. THAT is what open source
projects tend to say. Not “powerful interfaces might confuse users and not
look nice”.
If this was a one-off, I’d buy it. But I’ve heard it too damn many times.
And only ever from Gnome.
The reason I don’t use Gnome: every single other window manager I know of
is very powerfully extensible, where you can switch actions to different
mouse buttons. Guess which one is not, because it might confuse the poor
users? Here’s a hint: it’s not the small and fast one.
And when I tell people that, they tend to nod, and have some story of
their own why they had a feature they used to use, but it was removed
because it might have been confusing.
Same with the file dialog. Apparently it’s too “confusing” to let users
just type the filename. So gnome forces you to do the icon selection
thing, never mind that it’s a million times slower.
Linus
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2005-December/msg00019.html
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